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Shuatahu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Shaman Respecs Reply with quote

I think Zura had a good idea in her post about priest respecs and I noticed Kray has a rogue respec thing going too. I don't get antsy about respecs the way some people do, it's a not a big deal to me. I figure if I don't like something, I can buy my way out of it.

That being said, there were a lot of changes to the Shammy talents and I'm sure this soon after the respec, most of us have only seriously looked into a couple builds and have only applied one and played around with it a bit. I'm thinking that we could benefit from dialog about our builds so we can also get an idea of what other people are doing and whether or not they like it.

Please provide a link to your build if you can. What do you like about it? What do you dislike about it? Though it may be too soon to tell, what do you imagine its strengths / weakenesses to be? Have you tried grouping with it yet? PvPing with it yet? If you had another free respec, what would you change about the build you specced to?
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Shuatahu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My build:

My build is 34 Enhancement and 10 Restoration. I have the improved weapon buffs (the one that leads to Stormstrike, not the totem one) and also picked up dual wield and improved dual wield. My points in Resto are in the first tier 1 talents (reduced mana for healing and the reduced casting time one).

I am unable to post a link to my build since I'm at work now. I will do so once I get home.

After my respec, I went out to the Hinterlands to wrap up a quest and punch things. For grinding purposes, this build is awesome. I easily crashed right through most of the mobs I encountered and was often able to pick up the next fight right after finishing one. I had to stop and drink only one time due to a pull where I got two adds. Other than that, the need to blow out a lot of mana during a fight is minimal.

My typical MO is: have windfury on one weapon and flametounge on the other, initialize Lightening Shield (which I have points in Improved Lightning Shield). I pull using a low level Earthshock or Lightning bolt or just run up and start hitting. If I plan on setting up a "camp" there, I'll drop all my totems and pull mobs to the spot where I'm fighting to reuse totems as much as possible.

Strengths are the ability to get through mobs quickly (ie: grinding) and the mana-friendly healing spec helps conserve mana so downtime is minimal.

Weaknesses: I haven't grouped with this build yet, however, I think most of the weaknesses will become evident while grouping / instancing. I am concerned about pulling aggro off the tank with this build. I think I can probably lessen that by watching what buffs I have on my weapons. I will also not be as effective a healer as I could be. I have main-healed ST with no points in Resto, but it could become a problem if I were to try to use this as a raid build. Also, as I have mentioned elsewhere, if I get the plus-to-crit bonus from Enhancement, I would be concerned that I could help someone else take aggro off the tank. (ie: a rogue with high agility and +crit already gets a large string of crits and pulls aggro off the tank).

Another weakness I imagine for this build is a lack of PvP viability. To damage an opponent with this build, it is within my interests to melee with them. However, I wear mail armor and may not get the chance to close ranks with them. Most of the Shaman PvP builds I have seen focus on Elemental for that reason. I'm not saying that it will be impossible to PvP with this build (and I will definately be trying it), but it will be more challenging than an Elemental build where I'd be able to blast away from the back lines.

Anyway, that's my build and I plan on hanging onto it to get me to 60 faster. After that, who knows.
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Tiuh
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wellll *rubs hands together* my build is this:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000055005051350113515321

Quote:
What do you like about it?


PvE: Well with Earthshield on I can literally heal non-stop. We went to Diremaul the other night and one of our shamans was getting munched on by some mob and I decided to pull it off. It was just habit, but what I realized when I did this was, lo and behold, not only was I being healed as the mob smacked me, but I was also able to -continue- healing the group with -no- reduction in cast time. So not only am I not needing to heal myself, not only am I offtanking, but I'm also healing my entire party at the same time! It was as if the mob wasn't even hitting me. Now this can only last for roughly 20 seconds, but still... I can -offtank and heal effectively-. There's a role I'd never even dreamed of. Vutak, Rajindo, Ephram, Mongous and I were even talking about how to Main Tank with a healer. Wouldn't that be hilarious! But with this shield it begins to see not only possible, but mildly plausable. As far as tanking goes though, I think it's best application is in offtanking.

I now feel naked when I don't have this shield on.

Chain Heal is also now freaking amazing. The first hit heals for 1000. 1000! I love this spell.

Oh! And the new 30% of you int to +healing is pretty hot too Wink I'm getting 3.6heal/mana with my healing wave now! =D

PvP: Well, two talents come to mind now. Nature's Guardian and Earthshield. Oh! And Stun resist.

Nature's Guardian is pretty cool, and even mildly useful Wink Basically once I'm under 900 health I have a 50% chance, whenever anyone hits me, to heal roughly 250-500 health. It might not seem like a lot, but it really does save me from dying from autoattacks. Mage crits are another thing. -One- of their fireballs can kill me now. I got hit for 3170 last night by one. Anyway...

Earthshield! Well, it's the casting non-interrupt that rocks the party here. Unless someone has kick/silence/shield bash/etc I'm gonna heal. There's really nothing anyone can do (unless they use the above Wink ) It also has a nice synergy with NG, as I'd be healing 750 or so per hit under 900 health.

With characters that are AQ40/Naxx gear I don't stand a chance. It's just that simple. I had a rogue 2-shot me and a couple mages tear through me. However! Not everyone has that and thankfully I got to play some AV matches where I saw the survivability of this spec.

Not once, not twice, but at least three times I ran into our base (when the alliance were on Drek) to take out some people. I think maybe I got down one, but that's not the point! The point is that I was being attacked by FOUR people at once. A warrior, a rogue (I think), a paladin, and a warlock and/or priest. So five. How long do you think it would take someone to die from that onslaught? Maybe 2 seconds? They blow their big shots on you and you're toast. Yeah, not with my shammy. I attacked the pally and almost killed him then he started getting heals from a nearby priest. So I figured that I was in a no good situation and I started to retreat. Generally you don't get away from this kind of thing. I did. That's really all I can say, I don't know how to describe it. I just live through things that would have utterly destroyed me before. The damage is regular, nothing special, but holy cow can I survive.

Granted those mages still really suck.

Quote:
What do you dislike about it?

Well it's about survivability and not damage. Not sure how much I like that yet. The Dual wield spec looks soooo hot.

Quote:
Though it may be too soon to tell, what do you imagine its strengths / weakenesses to be?

Healing, healing, and more healing. People are just simply gonna stay up longer with me around. Given that I don't keep getting two shotted, anyway.

Quote:
Have you tried grouping with it yet? PvPing with it yet?


See above wall of text.

Quote:
If you had another free respec, what would you change about the build you specced to?


I'd go full enhance. All the way. Few questions asked. I love the healing spec as it is, but my damage side is beginning to rear it's ugly head. I want to be able to grind, you see, and I haven't tried that with a resto, but I -know- it'll go quick with a DW spec, so it's hard to say. I still love healing so I'm just going through the process of a value weighing.
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Shuatahu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had noticed the survivability increase of the resto spec prior to the patch changes. It was really cool to watch 60s in AV really have to work to take me out. From the sounds of it, they have improved it quite a bit on top of what it already is.

And if you're keen on grinding, Enhancement is definately the way to go. The only thing really holding me back during my tests last night was the fact that I had no dagger skill when I started (my new off hand weapon is a dagger). Once I started getting the skill up and getting flametounge procs though I was buring down mobs like crazy. It's interesting that I wouldn't bother to get a two-hand weapon when I could have because I couldn't justify the armor loss. Yet with the dual-wield ability, I don't notice problems with my damage taken as much. Mainly because things die pretty fast.

Thanks for the input Tiuh!
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Tiuh
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to have it for the grinding, but I know that healing is such a huge part of my playstyle I don't know quite what I'd do if I switched. That and apparently enhance sucks for pvp. I don't know yet. I'm not in any rush, I'll just start collecting some DPS gear when people don't need it.
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Tiuh
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?0000000000000000000050050320150013053115100000000000000000000

Something with a base like this, then take either improved totems in resto and one of the healing talents, like this:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?0000000000000000000050050320150013053115105005000000000000000

or go over to elem and take convection and elemental shields, along with mental quickness and enhance, like this:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?5002000000000000000050050320150013353115100000000000000000000

Granted the following is better, I think:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?5000000000000000000050050320150213353115100000000000000000000

Either way these seem quite raid friendly DPS specs. I'm so, so tempted. Oh the agony, oh the indecision *swoon*
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Girraga
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:48 pm    Post subject: Build as you level Reply with quote

Hail all you powerful Shamans.

As a lowly 27 season shamam, I'm looking for the order in which you all would suggest while I"m leveling up.

Start Elemental, move to Enhance, resto, etc.

any help would be wonderful.
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Brannwyn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've found the ultimate middle ground lvl 70 respec....it's absolutely designed to be nothing special except the jack of all trades respec...

i really don't think i'd ever choose it...but damn....it's tempting....

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?5500010000000000000005050021550013050110005205301000000000000

EDIT!!!!!!!

after looking back...tell me what you think of these instead

Pre BC:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?0000000000000000000055050021505213050010105203000000000000000

Road to 70:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?0000000000000000000055050021505213050010105205300005000000000

shamanistic rage for Natures swiftness is a tough call...

but i'm going with the mana regen as a secondary healer choice. If' i'm main heal, i want my melee to be worth something if it makes the mistake of hitting me. I'd still be getting +heal/+spell damage stuff. So healing should be just an extension of all the casting i can do.

I think this well round out the character class. And also compliments a very cool moment I had with a group this past evening in Live Strat. Kerrig has earned major cool points from me.

C&C appreciated publicly and privately.
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Shuatahu
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Build as you level Reply with quote

Girraga wrote:
Hail all you powerful Shamans.

As a lowly 27 season shamam, I'm looking for the order in which you all would suggest while I"m leveling up.

Start Elemental, move to Enhance, resto, etc.

any help would be wonderful.


First of all, spec whatever makes you happy. If you like serious healing, you will enjoy playing a lot less as a full Enhancement shammy.

That being said, I would recommend starting off Enhancement. Shocks and other casts tend to burn up a lot of mana. Enhancement will help you grind better (so all those quests that boil down to "kill 1900 plainstriders" will go quickly). Personally, I'd pass on the point in weilding two-handers unless you can use it as a filler. I have yet to see a two-handed weapon (leveling up, anyway) where I thought "ZOMG, I would totally give up half my armor (my shield) for that!" Get Dual Wield and the Improved Dual Weild as soon as you can. Much like using a two-hander, you will take more damage, but you'll also destroy stuff quickly. I also picked up the improvements in weapon buffs (the one that leads to Stormstrike, which I will not be getting). With a buff on each weapon, I make absurdly short work of most mobs.

As I said in the beginning though, do what makes you happy. You will enjoy playing a lot more and will play a lot more if you like the build you've created. So if you don't mind how long it takes you to kill a mob, but want to be able to survive a lot of damage, go Resto. The general consensus is that Elemental still needs help, but if casting is what you like, emphasize that tree. I was resto for a short time and I enjoyed my survivability and overall improvements in healing. Once I am closer to 60 (I'm currently 54) I will probably change to Resto at least to try out the new talents.
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Girraga
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, unfortunately I'm still in the levling up phase and focusing on that aspect....although the lure of lvl 29 PvP is strong in me for AB.

Right now I'm 15 Elemental to lower the mana cost of shocks and lowering the cooldown on shocks. I then started in Elemental with increasing my mana, etc.

I still do well, and even hold my own with green gear in AB at lvl 27. Really just need to decide on lvling Girraga or staying at lvl 29 right now for PvP.
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Shuatahu
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing about the Enhancement tree is that it's not that good for PvP if that's what you like. I've been trying it out in AV and ... ouch. Granted, I'm only 54 at the moment and I'm going up against 60s in their Tier 1 and 2 sets. To be effective, I need to close with the opponent and melee, which doesn't usually happen. That and I wear mail armor, so I take a lot of damage. I have heard that those shammies that like to PvP will emphasize the Elemental tree so that may be the way to go for you. Once I'm 60, I may visit an Elemental spec for a bit to PvP more effectively. Resto looks like it has some great PvP attributes too (see Tiuh's post).
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Girraga
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. I'm just going to have to start focusing on leveling I suppose.

I've also got a warlock at 48 and after a year still no lvl 60...too much AADD and altism.

I need some Jedi mind trick telling me to <focus Gir, focus>
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Girraga wrote:
True. I'm just going to have to start focusing on leveling I suppose.

I've also got a warlock at 48 and after a year still no lvl 60...too much AADD and altism.

I need some Jedi mind trick telling me to <focus Gir, focus>


*Jedi hand wave*

These aren't the alts you're looking for.

Move along.

Smile
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Tiuh
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Girraga and Shua: Actually I've heard if you get high enough atk pwr (like 700) DW is fine for pvp. I'm in love with earthshield for pvp though. It's insane.

To Eph: Why not go all the way with DW, dude? Then you can buff the melee even more =) What do you think about a spec like this? Benefits? Losses?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?2000000000000000000050050320050213353115105005301000000000000

I feel iffy about making a suggestion (just because of how BMR does things) But you and I have been talking about it, so this is what I think would be very effective. You get a very strong melee tree with some very good shock mana efficiency (Note the mental quickness down enhance, and heal efficiency) plus your totems get increased range. There are some very nice PvP weps that aren't hard at all to get for DW too. I traded out increased armor and shield spec because, well, you want to do damage, and DW is the way to go for that =) I took out dodge because I couldn't take it and get mana efficiency too. To increase your damage the +hit off of DW spec and the one in resto will help greatly. Again, only my suggestion, if it works for you cool, if you wanna change it, also cool =)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I love the fact that no one is trying to pigeon hole me...its just that at lower levels there are better grinding specs out there. Given that most of you have lived through that you have a good idea what works best.

For end-game, I have no idea mostly because I have no idea what area I'm going to focus on...raiding, PvP, cash machine.
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