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How BMR Raiding Works 3.0 (beta)
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Saphiel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: How BMR Raiding Works 3.0 (beta) Reply with quote

This document is not finalized. If you have a problem with any of the rules set forth herein, please post them here in this thread. Do not whisper or PM myself or Keryn or other officers about it, as you will be ignored. Post here, in this thread, with any disagreements you have with the rules, any issues that have been missed, or even typos and areas in need of clarification.

There is a lot here, I know. I took the time to write it, and I guarantee that took more time and effort than it will take you to read it. So please, do me a favor.
----------------------------

Preface

With another expansion launched, the rules of raiding have changed once again, although the shift is not as significant as it was from original WoW to BC. The bigger difference this time is that BMR is a very different guild, in terms of raiding, than it was when made our first forays into Zul’Gurub years back, or into Karazhan during the Burning Crusade. We’ve learned a lot in terms of focus, coordination and dedication. For that reason, I suspect we shall be that much more successful that much faster in Northrend raid instances. We will see Arthas and we will take him down, and we won’t have to wait until the content is nerfed into oblivion to do so.

That said, the core philosophy of our raiding has not changed. BMR is still “a hardcore guild with a casual schedule.” That means that when we’re raiding, we take things seriously (not to say we can’t have fun, of course!), but you only have to commit as much time as you want to commit. Our goal is to have everyone who wants to raid be able to raid, but many of us take what we do seriously and it’s not our job to carry you through content. That means that everyone has to do his or her part.

That means a few things. It means showing up for raids on time, and letting the raid leader know when you’ll be late or can’t make it, so they can make a choice on whether or not to replace you. It means running 5-man dungeons and heroics to gear yourself, and spending the time, effort and (in-game) money to properly gem and enchant your gear and purchase consumables. It means taking feedback that you receive from the raid leader or other experienced players as constructive criticism, and not getting bent out of shape about it.

Raiding is a group effort. When you sign up for a raid, you’re making a commitment. It is possible for one person to drag down the rest of the group. Maybe it’s not fun for you to spend money on gems and enchants, but if that means you are under-performing in the raid, then you can expect to be benched. Somewhere between 9 and 25 other people are relying on you to do your part. They’re putting in the work to be where they are, and they’ll expect the same from you. We’re always ready and willing to help you out to get what you need – so it’s really not too much to ask.

The raid is a collective. It succeeds and fails together as one entity. That means sometimes you'll spend hours and tons of gold on continued wipes. Sometimes you'll blow through content and reap tons of phat lewtz. Regardless of how the luck fairy decides to treat you, if you're not giving it your all then you're doing a disservice to your fellow raiders.

This is not to discourage anyone from raiding. If you want to raid, we want you to raid, too! It's not even that we don't want people to join up fresh and get quick and easy loot with a well-geared group. We just want the raid to be the best that it possibly can, as often as possible. We will help any prospective raider in any way that we can.

So here are the raid rules for Wrath of the Lich King raiding:

1) Raid Scheduling and Attendance
1.1) Raid Allies
- We value and respect the contributions of our raid allies in the GROWL raid alliance. Raid allies will have all of the rights and privileges afforded to any guild-raider, including participation in 10-man raids.

1.2) Raid Roles
- If you intend to raid with BMR, you must choose both a main character and a main role. When people are constantly switching between their alts and specs, it diffuses the loot and it ends up taking that much longer for the group to progress to the next level of content. This will also determine what pieces of loot you can roll on (i.e. a DPS-specced warrior shouldn’t roll on tanking plate). You should post your chosen raiding main and that character’s spec in the “Ready to Raid?” thread. You can redeclare your raiding main and spec once a month. If you don’t declare your raiding main and spec, you’ll be relegated to permanent standby until you do.
- You are allowed to sign-up as your alt or as a different spec of your main, but you will be relegated to standby.

1.3) Raid Scheduling
- We generally raid Sunday starting at 5:30 server and Monday evenings starting at 7:30 server. Most runs last around 3 hours, though sometimes we go longer on Sunday nights if we're doing progression, or make an extra half-hour push if we're close to downing a boss.

- There is no strict schedule in terms of what days we do which runs. We try to alternate progression and farming runs so that everyone has a chance to experience both.

1.4) Signups
- Raid signups will be posted in the War Room. Reply to the thread to sign up.

NOTE: As of 5/2/10, people need to sign up individually for raids, you can no longer sign on behalf of yourself and your spouse/SO/BFF or whatever.

If there is room for your role, then you'll be added to the roster. Otherwise you'll be added to the alternate list. It's recommended that you sign up even if the raid is full, as you can secure yourself a reservation for future raids (see below).

1.5) Raid Makeup
- For 10-man raids: 1 main tank, 1 offtank (preferably with DPS capability), 3 healers, 5 DPS.
For well-geared groups, a healer can be subbed out for a DPS.
- For 25-man raids: 1 main tank, 2 offtanks (with DPS capability), 6 healers, 16 DPS
In most cases a healer can safely be subbed in for a DPS as needed.

1.6) Reservations
- Alternates who make themselves available on raid days even if they aren’t guaranteed a spot are rewarded with reservations for future raids. The following conditions apply:
- a) The alternate must be signed up as alternate on the forums a reasonable amount of time before raid time, and must be an alternate because all spots were filled (i.e. not signed up as an alternate because he/she can "maybe" make it).
- b) The alternate must /whisper the raid leader (usually Saphiel) up to 15 minutes before the scheduled start time or up to 10 minutes after and let them know he/she is ready and available. In addition, the alternate must post in the Reservation thread just for good bookkeeping.
- If a spot happens to be available for an alternate on a raid night, he/she will still get a reservation. It isn't required that the alternate stay online to secure a reservation - once you've contacted the raid leader, you can go about whatever business you prefer. Finally, when securing reservation, the sooner you can inform the raid leader of your future availability, the better.

1.7) Raid Attendance
- There is no raid attendance requirement
- Raiders are expected to be online, stocked up, repaired and ready for a summons by the raid's start time. If you are not online at the raid’s start time and a replacement is available, your spot may be forfeit depending on the circumstances. If you contact the raid leader beforehand and let them know you will be 15 minutes late or less, your spot may be held at the raid leader’s discretion.
- It is requested that you please keep AFKs and similar delays to a minimum as a courtesy to your fellow raiders. Try to save your short AFKs for immediately after boss kills or wipes and your long AFKs for trash clears (unless of course you are in a vital tanking, healing or crowd control role).

2) Raid Preparation
2.1) Mods
- You are not required to use any mods*. However, BMR recommends and uses the following mods:
- Omen Threat Meter: As the name implies, this is a threat meter. A DPS pulling aggro can easily wipe the raid on many encounters, and Omen is an easy way to avoid this. Strongly recommended for all tanks and DPS.
- Recount: This mod tracks damage and healing done and taken by party members. These are useful to track your own DPS and healing stats so that you can improve your performance.
- Grid: This is a lightweight, compact interface primarily geared for healers. There is some nuance to it, but once you’ve learned it is tremendously useful. If you have questions about it, ask an experienced healer like Saphiel or Leuchtende.
- Decursive: While this mod no longer allows easy dispelling/decursing/etc., it does pop up a handy warning whenever there is a debuff that you can cure. A good mod for any class who can dispel, decurse, cure poison or cure disease.
- BigWigs / Deadly Boss Mods: These mods will provide you with ability warnings, cooldown bars, and other important information for fighting many bosses. While in most cases the raid leader’s boss mod will announce important events, these can give you an extra level of early warning so you can time your movements and abilities.
- RatingBuster: A handy utility that converts all those “ratings” into numbers you can actually use. This can be valuable in helping to choose the right piece of gear.

* Contingent on your ability to perform without them. For example, if you continually have problems with pulling threat, you will be required to download Omen, for example. Or, if you continuously have problems responding to a specific boss ability, then we will ask you to download one of the Boss Mod addons.

2.2) Voice Communication
- As with the mods, this is not required. BMR currently uses Ventrilo, and if you do have the program, you're encouraged to use it. Vent info will be sent at the beginning of each raid. Some instructions and other critical information will be communicated through /ra chat, so even if you have Vent, be sure to pay attention to /ra chat.

2.3) Consumables
- Please come to the raid with appropriate consumables. This includes: reagents, bandages, mana and health potions, appropriate battle/guardian elixirs or flasks, and buff foods. It’ not expected that you go all-out with consumables on bosses on farm status, but for newer bosses, please bring and use them! If you're having trouble finding these consumables on the AH, talk to one of our many guild crafters or the raid leader - we're happy to help. Similarly, if you're not sure which consumables you need to be bringing, just ask.

2.4) The Raid Bank
- Some consumables will be available from the raid bank. The raid leader will generally carry a healthy supply of these, but if you need something specific be sure to request it prior to the raid. Raid Bank consumables are a limited resource, and the raid leader is free to deny a raider access per his or her judgment. Generally speaking, these resources are meant to be used only on progression content – you shouldn’t be asking for DPS flasks on farm content just to boost your position on the DPS meters.

3) Contribution
3.1) Expectations
- Expectations are simple: do your job. We expect everyone to pay attention to fight explanations and do their best to execute their given tasks. Major raid boss strategies will often be posted prior to the raid in the Great Hunt forums - please read and reread these to familiarize yourself and minimize explanation time (less talk, more kill!).
If you're a tank, you’re expected to do everything you can to hold aggro and mitigate damage. If you're a healer, we expect you do everything you can to keep the raid alive. If you're DPS, you’re expected to do competitive DPS and avoid dying during the encounter whenever possible. If you are not pulling your weight, then the raid leader or knowledgeable members of your class will work with you to see where improvements can be made.
- Most importantly, we expect people to be willing and open to learning. If we come to you with suggestions or ideas on how to improve your game, then we hope you'll look at them with an open mind.

3.2) Specs
- In the broad sense, BMR does not enforce specs. Again, if you can pull your weight and do your job, we’ll have no reason to ever question your spec. However, if you cannot, you may be asked to modify your spec. We won't ask anyone to spec into a completely different tree or anything so severe, but we may ask for some changes to be made.

3.3) Gear
- For entry level raiding, raiders should be wearing almost exclusively level 80 instance/quest blues. Simply because BMR is working on cutting edge content, that does not mean that you should stop looking for ways to improve your gear from 5-mans and heroics. The epics you can buy with Emblems from heroics or 10-man raids, as well as the epics that drop in the newer 5-mans heroics are of worth getting if you're wearing lesser gear. You are encouraged to use resources such as WoWHead or Thottbot to find out what gear is available to you. If you don't have the time to do this, ask the raid leader or another member of your class. They can point you in the right direction.

3.3.1) Enchants and Gems
- The easiest way to improve your gear situation is to use appropriate gems and enchantments. To be frank: don't be cheap. If you have worthwhile gear, enchant it with the best enchants you can afford, and socket them with epic gems when you can - you're probably not going to replace them for months. If you're still in dungeon and rep blues, it’s understandable to not buy multiple epic gems - but you still should enchant your gear. Particularly, everyone should have an appropriate helm, shoulder and leg enchant, as these cost just money (and rep) and so are available to all. Again, mats can be expensive - if you're having trouble affording gems or enchanting mats, ask for help. Remember that you can buy rare gems fairly cheap and often have them cut by one of our Jewelcrafters. Similarly, if you're having trouble picking out enchants, ask for help.

3.4) Skill & Knowledge
- Gear and Spec are quick and straightforward ways to improve at your chosen role. Skill is harder to nail down, but no less important. There is a huge amount of theorycrafting out there on the 'net that can help you improve your game. If you're a warlock, are you using an opimtal DOT rotation? For hunters, are you using the correct shot rotation for your spec? Rogues, are you using the correct finishing moves in the correct order? A lot of people misunderstand or misevaluate their own skills. This also ties in with gear and spec - a lot of people undervalue stats like +hit, overvalue stats like +int, or choose their talents based on misinformed ideas. Do a little research - you may be surprised at how much there is to learn. Try the class forums at Elitistjerks.com – there’s a wealth of information there.

4) Loot

4.1) Loot Rules
- Looting will be handled through Master Looter. The raid leader will announce the item that is currently being rolled for and reward it to the winner. Generally speaking, key items like Tier pieces and weapons will be rolled on first.

- Please see the detailed breakdown of our new loot system.
- Please download the Bad Moon Rolling Addon to help simplify things for yourself and the raid leader.

4.2) Loot Etiquette
- While the system we use helps to ensure that everyone gets a fair shot at at least 1 piece of loot per night, extenuating circumstances may arise and it may be in the raid's best interest for you to pass. Use your common sense and if you're not sure, ask the raid. In extreme cases, the raid leader may ask you to pass on a drop for another raider (for example, if you're rolling on a piece of loot that is mostly good for you but has wasted stats, like Spirit if you're a caster Shaman, you may be asked to pass if someone else could benefit significantly from the gear).

5) Miscellany
5.1) Conflict and Issue Resolution
- If you have a conflict with another raid member or have an issue with the way things in the raid are being handled, come talk to me first. I check the forums and in-game mail every day, so response should be prompt.
- Extreme Personal Conflicts: If a member of the alliance refuses to raid with another member of the alliance, that is a personal choice. They should not make the raid suffer for it. Don’t withdraw at the last minute because someone you don’t like has signed up. Don’t ask the raid leader not to give a certain person a spot because you don’t like them. It will not happen.


Last edited by Saphiel on Wed May 05, 2010 6:57 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Saphiel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revision on 12/14 @ 2:34 EST: Modified the raid reservation part to specify that potential reserves can only sign up before, not after, the raid's start time
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Kun
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if these constitute problems or not, so to be on the safe side, I'll post them here. Feel free to delete this post if you find it nonapplicable.

First, you depend a lot on roles, which are drawn from specs. Will this be reworked when dual speccing comes out, or will the raid mostly stick with the roles of the main spec since that's where players will have had the most time to develop their skill?

Second, I noticed you didn't mention glyphs anywhere. Are there any rules regarding what or how many glyphs a raider should have?

Thanks for a thorough rules thread, Saph.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I'd equate the secondary spec of the duel spec to be the same as an alt. For the purpose of gearing up the raid, gear that goes to an offset is about as useful as it going to a raiding alt.

This does lead to an interesting quandary.

Imagine player X signs up for a role (eg. DPS), and they can fulfill another role as an offspec (e.g. Healing). The raid forms, and all the DPS slots are filled, but there is a need for another Healer... are they passed over for a raid slot by the next main spec healer in the list, or do they have priority due to an earlier sign-up, even though they are an offspec?

- Tripe.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm reading this right (and I could be wrong) it's something like this:

Main character, main spec > Main character, offspec > alt character, main spec > alt character, offspec

And only within each category would sign up time matter. The rules are set up to gear main character's main specs first.

Otherwise, a paladin could respec three different ways and cover all three major roles (Tank, Heal, DPS) in a raid, virtually guaranteeing them a slot no matter what. Druids, likewise. Shaman, death knights, warriors, and priests can cover two major roles each. Allowing people to respec in order to get a raid slot (assuming a main of the correct role is available) would give them preference over the pure DPS classes , which don't have the ability to respec into a different role (mages, warlocks, rogues, and hunters.)

We've had a problem similar to this in the not too distant past where one person played a tank, a healer, and a DPS character and signed up for whatever role was still needed, allowing them unfair advantage over those without such alts.

Needless to say, if there isn't a main character main spec to fill the role, then offspec is preferable to alt (as they would still be able to pick up gear for their main spec.)
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Rajindo
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who has dps,tank and healer raiding characters I'd like to point out that 'unfair advantage' isn't really, um, fair. Sometimes for raids to happen they need that healer or tank even if you don't particularly want to play them.

You can ask the person who's playing their alt not to roll on items but...then why are they there? It kinda makes you want to just not play that alt at all and then the raid really does not happen.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Raji - I don't think there's really an issue with the way we raid. Alts and alt-specs are usually called upon not so that we can still have a slot, but so that the raid can happen.

Kun (and anyone else for that matter), I have a wide selection of glyphs, and will happily fill any need if you send me an in-game whisper or mail. Glyphs are exceedingly easy to gather supplies and make.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that if a player has an alt that would bring the correct role to a raid to make it happen, then we should bring that alt. I'd rather the raid happen than not go at all. And in that case, I think the alt should have equal access to the rewards of that raid. Not only because they put in the effort that day, but eventually you will pass that alts ability to raid with you and eliminate the option of using it when you need it. i.e. having to cancel raids due to lack of X role.

Now let me clarify. You should always sign up with your main. If you role is full, you do not get to automatically switch to your alt ahead of others who signed up for your alts role. exp: I sign up with my DPS main. DPS is full. Just because I signed up before the healers got full does not mean that I get a healer spot with my alt. If and only if there are not enough healer mains do I get to bring the healer alt.

At least, thats how I'd like to see it work.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keryn wrote:
Main character, main spec > Main character, offspec > alt character, main spec > alt character, offspec


I'm curious why a main character, off spec would be ranked higher then an alt who's main spec. In my mind, they are equivalent.

Heck, on second thought, the alt who's main speced is likely to have better gear and glyphs in most cases, therefore more likely to help the raid succeed.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brecken wrote:
I agree that if a player has an alt that would bring the correct role to a raid to make it happen, then we should bring that alt. I'd rather the raid happen than not go at all. And in that case, I think the alt should have equal access to the rewards of that raid. Not only because they put in the effort that day, but eventually you will pass that alts ability to raid with you and eliminate the option of using it when you need it. i.e. having to cancel raids due to lack of X role.

Now let me clarify. You should always sign up with your main. If you role is full, you do not get to automatically switch to your alt ahead of others who signed up for your alts role. exp: I sign up with my DPS main. DPS is full. Just because I signed up before the healers got full does not mean that I get a healer spot with my alt. If and only if there are not enough healer mains do I get to bring the healer alt.

At least, thats how I'd like to see it work.


I'm 100% in agreement with that! Well put!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct me if I misunderstood any of this:

Mains get priority for every spot in the order in which people sign up (assuming proper gear, etc.). If there's missing role at the time of the raid, an alt may be brought in by someone who has already signed up on their main for a different role, provided there is also another main who was put on standby who can fill the new gap created by someone switching roles.

Once you're in the raid, you may roll on any drops for the role and class you are currently playing in the raid, regardless of whether you are playing an alt or a main.

Is that about right?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Brecken and Durga are saying is accurate. The idea isn't that people can't switch to alts if they're needed, but rather that whenever possible they are playing their mains in order to build that character up and not "waste" gear on characters that hardly raid when that gear could be going to regulars. That said, I'm sure there will come a time in the future when that rule will no longer need to apply to Naxx but only to Ulduar. And then later it will apply to whatever raid comes after Ulduar and so on.

Also, on the Glyph issue: I generally consider glyphs to be a matter of personal preference.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For example (if my understanding is correct)

Merell's main gig is DPS, but she's one of the classes that is a respec away from doing pretty much anything with the right gear.

If leather tank goods drop I could roll as OFF SPEC after primary OT's or MTs get their shot at the goodies. (and after raid alts have had their turn?)

If healer / caster gear drops I would consider that Off off spec and usually will only roll if the only other option is DEing the gear.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to further clarify the policy regarding alts, off-specs, and loot.

The ultimate goal for BMR raiding is to build up a well-geared group of core raiders, so that the guild as a whole can experience new content and be successful. That is the primary function of the "declare your main and spec" policy, imperfect as it is.

That said, there are situations where bringing an alt or having a person respec is necessary for a healthy raid.

Essentially, whatever a person's declared role is, that is the gear they get to roll on. If a plate tank has respecced DPS for a run, they get to roll on tank gear, and any other plate wearers who are declared as DPS will get priority on plate DPS gear over them.

The situation is a little more complicated with alts. If we need someone who's normally a DPS to play their healer character, it's not entirely fair to ask them to do so without any real reward. As such, when an alt comes to fill a needed role, they are allowed full looting rights to whatever their current spec is. The way the rules are designed, this shouldn't be a common occurrence, but everyone should be aware of the policy when it comes up.

One fairly complicated and hopefully rare exception: if a declared raid main is locked out of a scheduled raid for any reason, but they have an alt available to come, the following rules apply.
- Per the usual rules, the alt is relegated to standby, but is placed at the bottom of the standby list.
- If there is room in the raid, the alt can come but can only roll on loot when all characters in their main spec role have passed. (Thus they can roll when other characters are rolling for offspec loot, or when gear would otherwise be sharded.)

For example, say Bob has Tanky the warrior tank and Shamany the shaman healer. Tanky is his declared main, but he raids with some other guild one week and gets locked out. Shamany is available as a healer for an upcoming run, but the healer spots are all full. He can sign up, but is on standby. If there ends up being an extra spot open and we're just looking for bodies, then Shamany can come. If a piece of caster shaman loot drops, Shamany can only roll when all other caster shamans in the raid have passed.

So to reiterate in a somewhat simplified way: an alt gets the standard priority to roll on gear when they are present in a needed capacity (e.g. we only have 5 healers signed up and we need 6). When an alt is there merely as filler, then they can only roll when mains have passed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the clarification. Sounds good to me.
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